"Voices of Deoli"
Q&A with Joy Ma
Voices of Deoli is an upcoming documentary about a lesser-known incident in modern history: the internment of Chinese-Indian citizens in India during the China-India conflicts in the early 1960s. Joy Ma was born in the internment camps and wrote about her (and other survivors') experiences in her book The Deoliwallahs (published in the UK and available in the US next year). She has collaborated with director Lulu Men to create Voices of Deoli, which recounts those times and catches up with other internment survivors in the present day as they reflect on the experience while also calling on the Indian government to acknowledge the incident.
Caveat Lector: For those who are new to the subject, how would you summarize this documentary?
Joy Ma: This is a film about family and how each member survives trauma. While the subject is likely unknown to most people, it is a universal one because during regional conflicts it highlights the resilience of families that are split up or undergo stress. The survivors of incarceration share a common experience of overcoming challenges, immigrating and making a new life.
I know this documentary project has been in the works for a while -- can you talk about its genesis, particularly in relation to your book about the Chinese-Indian internment, The Deoliwallahs?
I wrote The Deoliwallahs, a book I co-authored with Dilip D'Souza about the survivors of Deoli Internment Camp. Following the Sino-Indian Border War in 1962, after the end of the war, the Indian government interned about 2,500 Chinese Indians in a camp in Rajasthan. Some internees stayed for a few months. Others were imprisoned for four-and-a-half years. My family was one of the last families to leave Camp. I was born in Deoli. The Deoliwallahs was published in 2020 and I shared the book with my professor who suggested I make a film about this. Through her connections I met Director Lulu Men who became my partner in making Voices of Deoli. We filmed the survivors in 2022, the 60th anniversary of the war.
Meeting up again with some of the people whose experiences you chronicle in "The Deoliwallahs" must have been an emotional experience. Did any specific moments stand out to you during this process?
The people I met during my research for The Deoliwallahs were all older than me. They were teenagers, tweens and children. Their stories were gut-wrenching especially when they spoke about what happened after the internment and how their parents were affected. One of the most emotional experiences for me was when Ying Sheng Wong told me how he discovered that his father died in hospital. When he went to recover his body it was a moment he cannot forget for the rest of his life. His account in the book is difficult because he remembers it so well. Ying Sheng also suffered greatly after he was released from Camp and went back to his home in Shillong. He speaks of how he was asked to pay income tax for the year the family was in Deoli. There are also moments of great closeness that my mother told me that I recall every year. It can be difficult when each one comes around, especially my birthday, Moon Festival (Mid-Autumn) and Chinese New Year, all specific dates of significance for my family.
I saw an earlier cut of this film which focused primarily on survivor stories and anecdotes. The most recent version filled in more of the background details of the internment. How did you balance presenting a more detailed history of that time with the more personal stories of those who experienced it?
We believe that presenting a background of what happened and threading the survivor memories through them gives viewers context and a view into what the survivors experienced and how it made them feel. We also believe that sharing the trauma they went through is important because it lasts for The rest of their lives and bleeds into future generations.
I think it's safe to say that not a lot of people in the West---even in the Asian community---are aware of the internment. What has the response been to your book and documentary from people who are just learning about it for the first time?
The first reaction I get is disbelief that well-informed readers do not know about this event. This is true even in the countries that were affected, which is India and China. Most people know about the war, but they do not know about the internment. The second reaction is wanting to let other people know about this. That said, one of the most important reactions I get are from the survivors’ families who have not heard the stories that are in the book and the film. Bringing families together one step closer to healing has been one of the most rewarding experiences in writing the book and making the film.
In the documentary (and your book), it's pretty clear that the Indian government doesn't want to touch on this period of history, much less offer an apology for what occurred. Do you see this stance ever changing in the future, and what else do you hope to see (in addition to your book and documentary) that will keep the memory of this historical moment alive?
Yes, it is a challenge getting this topic in front of the people who can make a difference. As my co author Dilip says in the film, it is a subject that many people don’t want to resurface. We are hopeful that viewers and the public in learning about the event can Inspire change by sharing the story and keeping it in the public eye. it is also important to stand witness to history and document what happened. What my family suffered and what the survivors’ families suffered is difficult to capture a book or a film. As survivors of camp, are all committed to tell our stories so that future events like the internment do not happen. If we can change even one opinion , we are grateful for that.
Joy Ma grew up and was educated in India until she left for graduate school in the US. She enjoys travelling, meeting people and writing. Joy lives in the San Francisco Bay Area with her husband, two sons, her mother and Willie, the family dog. She was one of a handful of children born in the Deoli internment camp in Rajasthan.